John grew up in December 1167. He was at the most 21 and you may maybe young than that if his daughter Joanna was created. She might have been the newest oldest of all children he fathered of the his various mistresses.

1187 June - John into the France when Chateauroux was being besieged 1187 Summer 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 29 - Henry output in order to England, maybe that have John from inside the tow 1188 Summer - Henry delivers John returning to Normandy, crosses away from 1189 June a dozen - John within Le Man's whenever disarmed because of the Henry's buy, immediately after which John escaped otherwise was led out for coverage 1189 July 6 - Henry We becomes deceased inside France 1189 Aug. 12 - Richard will bring John back into The united kingdomt which have your 1189 Aug. 30 - John hitched in order to Isabelle out-of Gloucester during the Marlebridge 1189 Sep. step 3 - Richard crowned at the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard delivers John towards Wales to subdue new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned so you can Normandy and you can pressed toward oath not to ever set feet with the The united kingdomt for three years 1190 June - Richard goes on crusade [John vacation trips his oath] In regards to our aim, it is believed that the initial period, together with most probably returning to Joanna having already been invented, 's the 1187-9 period. 1187 - John uses almost the year inside France 1188 - John have gone back to The united kingdomt during the January, but from the summer is distributed back again to France, where he seemingly have remained 1189 - John seems to be inside the France January - August, returning to help you The united kingdomt inside the August in preparation for their wedding towards 30 Aug. If John produced not unrecorded yields so you can England, it seems that he invested regarding 80% from his day from January 1187 until his marriage, in France . He was will eventually considering the County out-of Mortain, within the Normandy (in advance of Richard's coronation) european hot women.

The above pointers, because of the months in addition to fact that Joanna is introduced so you can England away from France inside the 1203 to have their relationships in order to Llywelyn, lends credence on the proven fact that Joanna along with her mother was indeed out of French/Norman supply.

Provided along with John's really-understood philandering during this period, truth be told there is apparently of numerous candidates towards role regarding mommy out-of Joanna!

Immediately after an alternate enough time lookup although not, I am able to select no trace from a great Clemence de- Dauntsey during the the latest info

My personal prior post provided what that Paget indicated that they is Clemence de Dauntsey, whom hitched Nicholas de- Verdun. We thought that this is the newest Nicholas and Clementia to exactly who Henry 111 granted the brand new child custody regarding Susanna (because the a hostage) inside the 1228. Used to do see however, the newest view of one genealogist exactly who demonstrably said it as…’ In my opinion we (brand new genealogists) established that there is actually zero eg person just like the Clemence de- Dauntsey. You to definitely identification of partner out of Nicholas de Verdun is actually an excellent mistake because of the Paget!’

Clemence ce Boteler came to be on 1175 within the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire

I’m ready to accept that end, since next data of one’s ideas of the second Clemence ended up far more productive.

Clemence ce Boteler hitched Nicholas de Verdun from inside the 1202 (their next wife after their relationships so you can Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, so it wedding isn’t shown) on Alton, Staffordshire plus they had one young child, Rohese de- Verdun who was simply born in the 1203 otherwise 1205 (passed away. Feb 1247).

When the, in fact, Joanna are caused by a great liaison ranging from John and you will Clemence ce Boteler (who does was old up to fourteen-fifteen at the time), it can was basically very difficult on Ce Boteler friends to locate a suitable partner to own Clemence. In reality certain 10 years solution prior to an excellent ily?) having a trusting English nobleman and property manager, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving out for the moment the possibility that Nicholas got dropped in love with the brand new twenty-seven year old Clemence and you will desired to get married their, it could were essential John to add Clemence that have some possessions out-of her own to make certain that she turned into a glamorous award getting their unique future husband.